Cardinal Hollerich talks about choosing the next pope

An unexpected situation

Cardinal Hollerich: On Easter Monday, I celebrated Mass at a prison in Luxembourg. Since we don't have phones in prison, one of the guards told us the news. I didn't know if it was true. When I got out of prison, our communications officer was waiting for me. That's when I knew it was true. I was able to catch a flight that evening to come to Rome.

I felt great sadness when I said goodbye to Pope Francis. He was like a father to me. I had been lucky enough to see him just two weeks earlier, at his residence in St. Martha's, when he returned from the hospital. He looked very frail. But I never thought that the Lord would take him into his arms so soon.

Cardinal Jean-Claude Hollerich: Yes, we need the faithful because we are electing the future pope. We cannot do this without being truly supported and commissioned by the faithful.

Meetings with other cardinals have begun

Cardinal Hollerich: We’re all responsible adults. We know that we must talk to each other and listen to each other, for the greater good of the Church, of the “holy People of God,” and for our own good.

Cardinal Hollerich: Yes, we have begun. I cannot say what about. There were already 113 cardinals [on Thursday, April 24, editor's note]. The number of cardinals who aren’t Italian or Roman is increasing, so the atmosphere is also changing a little.

Cardinal Hollerich: Everyone is saying what they want to say. And we’re listening carefully.

Cardinal Hollerich: We'll have to wait longer to see!

The profile of the next pope

Cardinal Hollerich: I do! But we'll have to see if it matches the profile that others have in mind.

Cardinal Hollerich: To continue what Pope Francis has begun, that is, giving priority to the poor and committing to an integral ecology centered on people. [...] Synodality must also be pursued. We submitted a text to the pope for the post-synodal period to update the Synod [which concluded last October in Rome]. He signed this text from the hospital. For me, it’s a bit like Francis' testament that we must carry forward.

Cardinal Hollerich: There are certainly very different visions, but that doesn’t mean “divided.” We’re in deeper communion than the opinions that divide us.

Cardinal Hollerich: I hope so! In fact, that’s what we did at the Synod. We avoided bad radicalism while keeping the radicalism of the Gospel. It would be good to do the same and find common ground where we can walk together. Being conservative or progressive isn’t important. What’s important is to have faith in the living Christ, to be able to share it with our brothers and sisters, and to walk together listening to the Spirit.

Cardinal Hollerich: We have time.

The upcoming conclave

Cardinal Hollerich: We don't know yet when the conclave will begin, but we can see it more or less, if we look at the nine days [of mourning to be observed after the pope's funeral on April 26, editor's note].

Cardinal Hollerich: Probably, I think so, seeing that by then the nine days of mourning will be over.

Cardinal Hollerich: I'll leave that to the Holy Spirit to decide! I'm not the Holy Spirit!

Cardinal Hollerich: I’m a little apprehensive, because I feel very small. We have to make decisions for the whole Church, so we really need to pray for ourselves, that we may be attentive to the Holy Spirit. But I also move forward with great hope, knowing that [...] the Holy Spirit never abandons his Church and that Christ is alive. He is risen and is among us. That is what we can be sure of.

How the world situation affects the conclave

Cardinal Hollerich: I think about young people. In our European countries, they’ll be poorer in the future than they are now. We’ve always lived in a world that [trended toward] the better. They’ll have the opposite.

With the threat of war, which has never existed in my personal history, there are rapid changes. We’re at the very beginning of artificial intelligence. This will turn the world upside down. The world they’ll see when they’re my age and when I’m resting in the crypt in Luxembourg will be very different from the world of today.

Cardinal Hollerich: I think so. But the Church can bring something to this world. The Gospel, words of peace and hope. People need words of hope. And who else can give it to them? A materialist cannot give words of hope.

Cardinal Hollerich: I’ve always admired Pope Francis. If the synodal approach continues, more attention will be paid to different cultures. We’ll have to find unity in diversity. Perhaps we also need to open up to the right, not just to the left.

Cardinal Hollerich: Yes, I have nothing against the Tridentine Mass if we don't think it's the only valid Mass and reject the Mass of Paul VI. That's not right!

There’s a kind of secularization that’s not only outside the Church, but also present within the Church. When we become so attached to external forms, I fear that we’ve lost some contact with the living God.

A Pope from the southern hemisphere?

Cardinal Hollerich: Why not!

Cardinal Hollerich: Rather than looking at a geographical region, we need to look at what skills and personality would be best today.

Cardinal Hollerich: A unifier, certainly. A pope is always a unifier, because Peter is the ministry of unity in the Church. You don't achieve unity in the Church by going backwards.

Cardinal Hollerich: I've digested it!

Cardinal Hollerich: That's not necessarily the Pope's fault! You know the joke: when you hit someone on the head with a book, if it sounds hollow, it's not necessarily the book...

Desirable qualities for a future pope

Cardinal Hollerich: A simple man who can connect with people, who knows how to listen to people, both left and right. A pope who lives the Gospel, who represents the face of the Gospel, of Christ, to the whole world. That's hard to find. But I think God will also give the future pope the grace of state. I wish him all the best.

Cardinal Hollerich: Not too young, not too old.

Cardinal Hollerich: No! I believe in the Holy Spirit, and I know my limits. The Holy Spirit won’t do anything foolish.

Cardinal Hollerich: It's mainly Europeans who say that. I don't think Africans, Americans, and Asian bishops say the same thing. I read an Asian publication today. It was clear: they say we need a pope from the young Churches.

Cardinal Hollerich: The pope is the bishop of Rome. It would be good if the bishop could speak with these people. But languages can also be learned.

Cardinal Hollerich: I don't think so. It's really not a question of excluding continents or nations. It's really about finding the best person.

The importance of evangelization

Cardinal Hollerich: It's either Asia or Africa. But as I said, we don't think in terms of priorities.

Cardinal Hollerich: Yes, that's clear. We must evangelize. With the secularization we’re experiencing, we must once again dig deep into our inner selves, [...] dig deep into the hearts of men and women. Otherwise, religion becomes an ideology. That’s not why we are here.

Cardinal Hollerich: Yes, but I don't think we should get into political arguments now. From what I've heard from these young Churches, being a more synodal Church slows down the progress of evangelicals a little. Because we’re closer to the people.

We need to distinguish between hierarchy, the ordained priesthood, what the dogma says, and how we’ve experienced it sociologically in the Church, that is, as a pyramid. I think the time of pyramids is over. That was ancient Egypt. Now we have to be with the people.

Pope Francis’ legacy

Cardinal Hollerich: Yes, and I think it will continue. Because on certain issues, we have to give different answers in different cultures. On certain issues! Not on everything related to faith. We can't say, “We believe this in Germany but not in France.”

Cardinal Hollerich: I think it will come up again because we’ll have a huge shortage of priests. Access to the sacraments must be the Church's priority. That's my personal opinion, which I may also change. Nothing I say is set in stone. That's what I think at the moment. Listening to my colleagues, who have other arguments and other experiences, I hope that I will also be able to change my opinions and positions.

Cardinal Hollerich: They’re very different. The pope has not appointed clones. They have very different positions on certain issues, which is normal.

Cardinal Hollerich: I hope so. I hope it will be discussed because we need to be a Church where people feel that we want to be authentic, that we want to follow Jesus. To achieve this, there must be complete transparency in everything related to abuse.

Cardinal Hollerich: It will certainly play a role, or at least it will be discussed.

A pope of peace who knows how to delegate

Cardinal Hollerich: No, we need a pope who knows managers and knows who to ask for these services. We aren’t financiers. In my diocese, I have my economic council, which I listen to. They know more than I do. Otherwise, I wouldn't need them. To make decisions, I need competent people, both men and women.

Cardinal Hollerich: I think it's necessary. Pope Francis was the pope of peace. We saw that he suffered greatly from the risks of war. It hurt him physically. After his hospitalization, when he visited St. Peter's Basilica, he wanted to be at the tomb of Pius X, who died on the eve of World War I ... Francis spoke of a third world war fought piecemeal. Unfortunately, we’ve seen that he was right.

We need a pope of peace, a pope who reminds us of what politics forgets. We need a moral authority that says something other than “buy weapons.” We can avoid war by being heavily armed. But we’ll never win peace with weapons. We need to change hearts.