Meet future Cardinal Baggio, an old friend of Francis

Fr. Fabio Baggio, undersecretary of the Dicastery for Promoting Integral Human Development, is one of the 21 new cardinals to be created by Pope Francis at the consistory on December 7, 2024.

A musician, a great promoter of welcoming migrants, and architect of the Vatican's Laudato si' ecological center, he spoke to us about his career and his long-standing friendship with Pope Francis.

i.Media: In an audience with the Scalabrinians on October 28, Pope Francis said, “Thinking of you, I wanted to create a cardinal [Fr. Fabio Baggio]. I wanted to do it earlier, but he didn't want to. Now, out of obedience, I've done it. [...] Take it as a gesture of esteem, of great esteem.” How did you feel about being called to the cardinalate? 

Fr. Fabio Baggio: As the Pope said in his address to my confreres, the possibility had been raised in the past, but I always tried to decline. I felt very comfortable in the work I was doing for him, and in the conditions I was in. In the end, the Pope decided otherwise.

I've been very close with Pope Francis since the 90s through shared experiences, and I've always worked with great confidence in his indications. So I said yes. But I didn't expect it to happen so quickly. I had the opportunity to speak with him in the days following the announcement [October 6, editor's note], to clarify my missions, and to be reconfirmed in my charges as under-secretary of the dicastery and general director of the Laudato si' Formation Center in Castelgandolfo. 

It's very rare for an under-secretary—number 3 in a dicastery—to be appointed a cardinal... Can we expect a promotion in the near future? 

Fr. Baggio: Actually, it's not the first time. We've already had two cardinals—an undersecretary and a prefect—in this same dicastery [for Promoting Integral Human Development]. Cardinal Michael Czerny was created cardinal in 2019 when the prefect was Cardinal Peter Turkson. I've seen great concord between members of the hierarchy, and this precedent reassures me. Michael Czerny and I have always worked together, and there is mutual trust and recognition of our different responsibilities.

Your career path began very early, when you entered the Scalabrinian seminary in Bassano del Grappa at the age of 11. Did you feel called to the mission? 

In those days, “minor seminaries,” schools with formation programs designed to discern vocations, were very common in my region (Veneto). In fact, there were 60 of us in my year, and I was the only one to be ordained.

When I entered, I wasn't thinking about the priesthood and religious life. I was following in the footsteps of my brother and cousin who had entered the seminary before me and were very happy there. There was a good atmosphere of brotherhood. I loved service to others, and had always been attracted by solidarity with the less fortunate. I came from a family that had suffered to subsist, and this generated in me a sense of responsibility. 

My decision then matured. Between the ages of 17 and 19, through various experiences in Italy and abroad, particularly with migrants, my conviction that I was called grew. I entered the novitiate and thought about it a lot, until I took my first vows in 1986.

You then went on to do a doctorate in Church History at the Pontifical Gregorian University in Rome, where you defended your thesis in 1998. What led you to this field? 

At the time of my perpetual vows, the Superior General suggested that I train to join the congregation's History Institute. It wouldn't have been a priority for me—I felt more inclined towards youth ministry—but I said yes to this service. And it's been a very important experience. 

I think there's a Providence that guides all the choices that are made, especially those made by our superiors for us. I chose as my thesis topic, “The Argentine Church in the face of Italian migration from 1875 to 1915,” looking in depth at how the local Church structured itself to respond to the needs of the migrants who arrived in such numbers.

At the same time as writing my thesis, I served as a missionary, starting my research in Chile, then in Argentina, where I was transferred in 1997. I was appointed director of the Migrants Office within the migration ministry of the archdiocese of Buenos Aires, where I got to know Jorge Mario Bergoglio, as auxiliary bishop, then archbishop, then cardinal. It was there that a true friendship began.

Cardinal Bergoglio was always very interested in the subject of migration, partly for family reasons—he’s the grandson of migrants—but also because the archdiocese of Buenos Aires was at that time experiencing a massive influx of migrants from neighboring countries—Chile, Peru, Bolivia, and Paraguay—in the years 1990-2000. 

In March 2002, I left for the Philippines, as director of our migration and study center for Asia and Oceania for eight years. In 2010, I was called to come to Rome to direct our institute of migration ministry, which is incorporated into the Pontifical Urbanian University, for 6 years. At the end of 2016 came a new call from my old friend, now pope, to collaborate with Michael Czerny in the dicastery's migrants and refugees section.

Between Buenos Aires and Rome, between Jorge Mario Bergoglio and Pope Francis, did you sense any changes? 

I've seen a great deal of continuity. Since 2013, we've seen each other on various occasions, and I've noticed that he hasn't changed his spirit, his attitude. He's only changed his attire, from a cardinal’s red to papal white. His smile hasn't changed. He's grown older, he has some difficulty walking, but he has the same missionary spirit, very much focused on the poor. New themes, for example in the area of ecology, have emerged more consciously, given his position.

In your work with the migrants and refugees section, what changes have you noticed in this area in recent years? 

When I arrived at the dicastery, the first thing we did was map the whole world, because the Pope wanted to know what the urgent challenges were for the Church. The challenges have changed location but are more or less the same since 2017. They have been exacerbated in certain territories, above all because of a negative narrative against migrants.

And the COVID pandemic hasn’t worked in their favor: populations have felt even more threatened and the sense of protecting borders has led to cruel attitudes towards those in need, with highly questionable stances from the point of view of human rights or solidarity. 

Nor should we forget that the scattered pieces of the third world war are producing hundreds of thousands of refugees, who come knocking on the doors of the quieter world, where it's possible to live. The international community needs to reflect deeply on who is responsible for conflicts. Are only the combatants responsible, or are there others?

What I notice is that the encounter with migrants changes us. It creates an awareness that the stories we are told do not correspond to the majority of cases. There are certainly stories of criminals, but most are desperate people seeking help. Encouraging encounters is important, because people vote, influencing decision-makers in one way or another.

Unfortunately, if we look at the global scenario, we are not preparing a world with fewer migrants, but a world with more people who will be forced—not because they want to—to leave their homeland, their place of origin, to seek a life elsewhere. Let's hope it's a world capable of opening up to them.

Since 2023, you've also been director of the Vatican-based Laudato si' Training Center. How do you go from migration to ecology?

We can't ignore ecology, because the areas most affected by new atmospheric phenomena, creating desertification, water shortages, etc., are the areas from which even more migrants will come in the future. 

To promote ecological conversion, the Pope has set up a training center and entrusted it with the Borgo Laudato si', 136 acres of land in the gardens of the villas at Castelgandolfo. We took over the main activities that already existed in this area, such as gardening, farming, livestock breeding, and the production of agricultural products—beehives, vines, cheese, and oil.

There have been new constructions and changes in the team. The new project benefits from the investment of private partners. At present, some fifty people are employed at the Center, including gardeners, handlers, and administrative staff. 

We are working towards a transition to a circular, generative economy. The aim is to lead a transition towards environmental sustainability, with the implementation of Laudato si' principles in terms of energy, waste management, water use, carbon impact, zero plastic, and green mobility. 

The site is magnificent, with a highly interesting ecosystem featuring 3,000 plants of 300 different species. An entire section of the Borgo is dedicated to raising awareness among visitors—particularly students and entrepreneurs—with a large didactic greenhouse, and two wings dedicated to training and catering. 

Will Pope Francis be coming to inaugurate the center? 

I think so. It will depend on him. There are favorable circumstances for considering the Jubilee year (2025), which will mark the 10th anniversary of Laudato si'. As September is dedicated to creation, this could be a sign of a propitious moment.

You're also a musician and composer... Music plays a big part in your life. 

My family has always lived and breathed music. I gave it up a bit in my teens, but then the seminary gave me the opportunity to rediscover this innate vein. I learned various instruments, and settled on the guitar, which was easier to carry around.

Around the age of 16-17, some interesting melodies started coming into my head, which I tried to play on the guitar, adding a few lyrics. I started out quite shy and embarrassed. During the novitiate, in our house at Loreto in the Marche, I presented to the superior some songs I'd written on religious themes, with a modern rock and pop sound, and they were well received.

My musical projects multiplied, and I staged my first musical production based on the love story of Joseph and Mary, and formed the Christian electro-pop group Sintesis. Then, when I came to Rome to study theology, I presented a few works to the Paulines publishing house, and went on to publish albums of liturgical music.

Music has always accompanied me in my missions. Since 2010, however, I've had to put the guitar on hold. I continue to listen to a variety of very eclectic genres, and I always say that there will come a time when I may start composing again...